Any suggestions would be great. I'm more interested in darker stuff.
31 Aug
Brand new to comics
Hey all, I have no idea if this section is the right place for this, or if this forum is even the right place for this, so i apologize if it isn't. I want to take my first steps into the comic book world, after seeing all my friends read and enjoy comics I have finally decided to take the plunge. I have asked my friends, but they seem as clueless as I am at times, usually just sticking to 2 or 3 of their favorite comic series. So my question is what would you recommend I start with? I am pretty interested in the batman stuff after reading up on the history of arkham asylum but I am a completionist and don't think i could possibly go back and read the batman story from the beginning.
Any suggestions would be great. I'm more interested in darker stuff.
Any suggestions would be great. I'm more interested in darker stuff.
31 Aug
Batman Music
What kind of music does Batman have on the bat-computer? What CDs does he have in the batmobile? What do the Batman rogues listen to after a long day of theft, murder, gimmick-based weapon shopping, costume washing, and interviewing potential henchmen?
Batman: I picture him as kind of a music snob that listens to art music and theoretically complicated works while trying to solve a crime in the batcave.
Joker: Maybe something with a lot of accordion or xylophone. If he were to play music, I could see him doing something like this too.
Two-Face: Umm, 2 Tone lol?
Poison Ivy: Probably riot grrrl and hippie anarcho bands that preach about improving the environment.
Okay, it's pretty tough to think of these so go go go.
And feel free to discuss other superheroes as well as how awesome Batman-related music is i.e. Burton movies, Nolan movies, the Batman Beyond intro, etc.
Batman: I picture him as kind of a music snob that listens to art music and theoretically complicated works while trying to solve a crime in the batcave.
Joker: Maybe something with a lot of accordion or xylophone. If he were to play music, I could see him doing something like this too.
Two-Face: Umm, 2 Tone lol?
Poison Ivy: Probably riot grrrl and hippie anarcho bands that preach about improving the environment.
Okay, it's pretty tough to think of these so go go go.
And feel free to discuss other superheroes as well as how awesome Batman-related music is i.e. Burton movies, Nolan movies, the Batman Beyond intro, etc.
31 Aug
Cover to Batman and Robin #3
I enjoyed all the interesting little bits of Batman and Robin#3. Like how the amusement park setting was the same as the setting in The Killing Joke. More interesting still since the issue re-introduces the Red Hood.
So, did anyone else notice that Quitely's cover is a cryptic, twisted, upside down tribute to one of the famed images that appeared in and was used in promos for The Killing Joke. You'll have to look at your copy of B&R#3 with the logo on it since the logo serves as the mouth.
Trust me.
So, did anyone else notice that Quitely's cover is a cryptic, twisted, upside down tribute to one of the famed images that appeared in and was used in promos for The Killing Joke. You'll have to look at your copy of B&R#3 with the logo on it since the logo serves as the mouth.
Trust me.
How about comparisons, only non animated stuff though. Any movie or show as long as its not animated.
I seriously think Nolans batman begins hits it right on just about every actor. What happened with katie holmes though, why was she out.
The suits are pretty tough choices, I do like the original burton batman suit and maybe even the car. Not that Nolans doesn't work for me too.
Best Joker - eh well probably ledger but Jack did a great one, I wonder what jack would have done under tdk, if he was in it.
Still thinking about other stuff.
I seriously think Nolans batman begins hits it right on just about every actor. What happened with katie holmes though, why was she out.
The suits are pretty tough choices, I do like the original burton batman suit and maybe even the car. Not that Nolans doesn't work for me too.
Best Joker - eh well probably ledger but Jack did a great one, I wonder what jack would have done under tdk, if he was in it.
Still thinking about other stuff.
What are some of the things you expect to see in the next batman movie, and some things you really don't want to see.
I definitely expect to see some more weapons or things added to the bat suit, but have a hard time with bringing in another vehicle. I really don't want to see anything that flies, it just seems like it would start down the old to fake path.
I definitely expect to see some more weapons or things added to the bat suit, but have a hard time with bringing in another vehicle. I really don't want to see anything that flies, it just seems like it would start down the old to fake path.
on April 4th at Cartoon Upfront Execs announced that this coming fall the latest animated Batman Series will begin airing on Cartoon Network. The series, titled Batman the Brave and the Bold, from the same production team as the Legion of Super Heroes series, will follow the format of the Brave and the Bold books and basically be a team up title and will feature heroes such as Blue Beetle, Green A…
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31 Aug
Jamie Delano Batman stories
I just reread Batman/Man-Bat the other day and it was a great read. Even, though Delano portrayed Batman in a negative light it was a refreshing change of pace as writers genreally portray Batman as being perfect and too nice. I was curious besides Batman/Man-Bat and that Legends of the Dark Knight story that he did any other Batman stories that Jamie wrote? I think he did a British Batman Annual with The Joker but I'm not positive.
Batman Begins resurrected the dying Batman film franchise. The Dark Knight proved to be one of the most successful movies in history.
31 Aug
Damian is NOT a Mary Sue
I've seen a number of people, on this forum and elsewhere, in the course of criticizing or commenting on Damian's character refer to him as a "Mary Sue" or some sort of male equivalent.
Now, I actually hated Damian in Batman and Son, and though he's grown on me in B&R, he's still far from my favorite character, or even my favorite Robin. I have no qualms with people who dislike him.
But what I do havequalms with people either entirely misunderstanding a term, or blatantly ignoring the actual traits of a character when criticizing characterization. Describing Damian as a Mary Sue is to misunderstand the term, or to ignore the way Damian has been portrayed.
Simply put, the defining characteristic of Mary Sues are that they are "perfect" (at least as the term is most commonly used today--it can also be used to refer to blatant author self-insertion, but I don't think even the most rabid critic is contending that Damian is a Morrison self-insert). They are better at everything than all the other characters, they take over every plot so that they end up the real hero in most situations regardess of whether they are actually the protagonist, everyone falls in love with them, the narrative constantly goes out of its way to highlight how awesome and wonderful they are, etc. This generally goes hand in hand with overall terrible characterization. See: Uchiha, Sasuke, or Starlin Thanos or something.
But even if you feel that Damian's characterization has been awful (something I'd argue with, but which isn't the point of this post), he simply does not meet the first criteria in any way shape or form. Damian is not perfect, or even close to it, and the story never pretends that he is.
Far from being good at everything, Damian is pretty much only good at one thing: fighting. Granted, he is really, really good at that. He's by far the most capable any Robin has been in hand-to-hand combat at this early stage of their sidekick careers. But he also has a better rational for excellence in combat: he's been trained since birth, unlike the acrobat, street punk, and whiz-kid bat-fan that have preceded him in the role, so it stands to reason that he'd be much farther along than they were. But even at this one thing at which he is truly exceptional at, he's not the best or anything: Bruce was obviously far superior to him, and even if he is better at fighting than Dick and Tim were at his age, at this stage of the game both Dick and Tim are more skilled combatants as well.
But thats really it, as far as Damian's exceptional abilities go. Consider:
He's nowhere near as smart as Tim, and probably not even as smart as Dick. He's a mediocre detective whose idea of investigation can generally be summed up as "hit people until they tell me things", and he's an abysmal strategist who rushes headlong into every threat and relies on his skills to bail him out--which, you'll notice, often results in him needing to be saved by Batman. This doesn't mean he can't improve, but it would be a real stretch to say he's somehow perfect when it comes to intellect, especially since he's following up on the incredibly brilliant Tim who put him to shame in every way when it comes to outthinking people and solving mysteries.
He's a really bad sidekick, and a pretty awful superhero. He disobeys orders constantly and nearly always lands himself in trouble for it. He has no notion of how to fight with anyone as part of a team: he couldn't do it with Bruce, or Tim, or Dick, and each time this inability has made he and his teammates less effective than they otherwise would be if they were actually in synch. He also has no notion that there is anything more to his job than hurting bad guys--very early on he casually kills a minor villain, and in the last issue of B&R he simply ignored a victim so he could concentrate on kicking the bad guy's ass. Compare this to Dick, who really does have the both the perfect personality and skillset/fighting style to both succeed as a sidekick and to be an inspiring hero.
So he's not perfect. But the plot also doesn't go out of its way to downplay his flaws and make him out to be a hero. When Damian screws up, which is often, it inevitably creates real problems for himself and for Batman. So far in B&R he's rushed headlong into an opponent who proved too much for him, which not only got him in trouble but meant Dick had to turn to help him out, turning their entire fight at the police station into a complete disaster. Then he runs off, thinking he can fix the problem on his own, and gets easily captured right away. Then he escapes, and almost immediately charges Pyg and almost gets killed, having to be saved by Bruce along the way. In doing so, he entirely neglected to rescue the one savable person in the entire place, a failure that looks like it will come back to haunt him as that little girl is now joining the red hood.
Really, far from being a mary sue, Damian is closest in character type to the most flawed and screwed-up Robin of all: Jason Todd. The differences mainly being that Jason just acted tough but was actually a punk, whereas Damian is legitimately a pretty big badass; and that Damian is transparently *supposed* to be an unlikeable jerk whose dickery is played for laughs and to make him a foil for the much more heroic Dick, whereas Jason was supposed to be someone we felt bad for and who existed mainly to provide Bruce with even more angst. Those are interesting changes, but they don't somehow make him a Mary Sue. That doesn't mean you have to like him, as I can certainly see a lot of reasons why people, especially if they were big Dick or Tim fans, wouldn't. But if you're gonna criticise him at least use the proper terminology.
Now, I actually hated Damian in Batman and Son, and though he's grown on me in B&R, he's still far from my favorite character, or even my favorite Robin. I have no qualms with people who dislike him.
But what I do havequalms with people either entirely misunderstanding a term, or blatantly ignoring the actual traits of a character when criticizing characterization. Describing Damian as a Mary Sue is to misunderstand the term, or to ignore the way Damian has been portrayed.
Simply put, the defining characteristic of Mary Sues are that they are "perfect" (at least as the term is most commonly used today--it can also be used to refer to blatant author self-insertion, but I don't think even the most rabid critic is contending that Damian is a Morrison self-insert). They are better at everything than all the other characters, they take over every plot so that they end up the real hero in most situations regardess of whether they are actually the protagonist, everyone falls in love with them, the narrative constantly goes out of its way to highlight how awesome and wonderful they are, etc. This generally goes hand in hand with overall terrible characterization. See: Uchiha, Sasuke, or Starlin Thanos or something.
But even if you feel that Damian's characterization has been awful (something I'd argue with, but which isn't the point of this post), he simply does not meet the first criteria in any way shape or form. Damian is not perfect, or even close to it, and the story never pretends that he is.
Far from being good at everything, Damian is pretty much only good at one thing: fighting. Granted, he is really, really good at that. He's by far the most capable any Robin has been in hand-to-hand combat at this early stage of their sidekick careers. But he also has a better rational for excellence in combat: he's been trained since birth, unlike the acrobat, street punk, and whiz-kid bat-fan that have preceded him in the role, so it stands to reason that he'd be much farther along than they were. But even at this one thing at which he is truly exceptional at, he's not the best or anything: Bruce was obviously far superior to him, and even if he is better at fighting than Dick and Tim were at his age, at this stage of the game both Dick and Tim are more skilled combatants as well.
But thats really it, as far as Damian's exceptional abilities go. Consider:
He's nowhere near as smart as Tim, and probably not even as smart as Dick. He's a mediocre detective whose idea of investigation can generally be summed up as "hit people until they tell me things", and he's an abysmal strategist who rushes headlong into every threat and relies on his skills to bail him out--which, you'll notice, often results in him needing to be saved by Batman. This doesn't mean he can't improve, but it would be a real stretch to say he's somehow perfect when it comes to intellect, especially since he's following up on the incredibly brilliant Tim who put him to shame in every way when it comes to outthinking people and solving mysteries.
He's a really bad sidekick, and a pretty awful superhero. He disobeys orders constantly and nearly always lands himself in trouble for it. He has no notion of how to fight with anyone as part of a team: he couldn't do it with Bruce, or Tim, or Dick, and each time this inability has made he and his teammates less effective than they otherwise would be if they were actually in synch. He also has no notion that there is anything more to his job than hurting bad guys--very early on he casually kills a minor villain, and in the last issue of B&R he simply ignored a victim so he could concentrate on kicking the bad guy's ass. Compare this to Dick, who really does have the both the perfect personality and skillset/fighting style to both succeed as a sidekick and to be an inspiring hero.
So he's not perfect. But the plot also doesn't go out of its way to downplay his flaws and make him out to be a hero. When Damian screws up, which is often, it inevitably creates real problems for himself and for Batman. So far in B&R he's rushed headlong into an opponent who proved too much for him, which not only got him in trouble but meant Dick had to turn to help him out, turning their entire fight at the police station into a complete disaster. Then he runs off, thinking he can fix the problem on his own, and gets easily captured right away. Then he escapes, and almost immediately charges Pyg and almost gets killed, having to be saved by Bruce along the way. In doing so, he entirely neglected to rescue the one savable person in the entire place, a failure that looks like it will come back to haunt him as that little girl is now joining the red hood.
Really, far from being a mary sue, Damian is closest in character type to the most flawed and screwed-up Robin of all: Jason Todd. The differences mainly being that Jason just acted tough but was actually a punk, whereas Damian is legitimately a pretty big badass; and that Damian is transparently *supposed* to be an unlikeable jerk whose dickery is played for laughs and to make him a foil for the much more heroic Dick, whereas Jason was supposed to be someone we felt bad for and who existed mainly to provide Bruce with even more angst. Those are interesting changes, but they don't somehow make him a Mary Sue. That doesn't mean you have to like him, as I can certainly see a lot of reasons why people, especially if they were big Dick or Tim fans, wouldn't. But if you're gonna criticise him at least use the proper terminology.
Remember the Battle for the cowl teaser poster with all the different batmen in the batcave?
I remember seeing a reversed JOKER card in the cave.
Now that Batman seems dead to everybody, Could the joker have lose his purpose of the joker and the death of Batman has driven him in SANE?
What If he returned to his classic RED HOOD guise and is now the scourge of the underworld and sasha is his new robin? Or his own robin/sidekick?
Anybody any other thoughts?
I remember seeing a reversed JOKER card in the cave.
Now that Batman seems dead to everybody, Could the joker have lose his purpose of the joker and the death of Batman has driven him in SANE?
What If he returned to his classic RED HOOD guise and is now the scourge of the underworld and sasha is his new robin? Or his own robin/sidekick?
Anybody any other thoughts?

